Also, its important to keep in mind that it is impossible to provide a perfect definition of any level. I've seen L65's who can't own a cardboard box, let alone a room.Well you know, don't go for them for advice! And I appreciate you screening out the non-productive whining posts. How accurate is this most likely Total Pay range (base + additional) of $396K-$652K/yr? They had to be given outlandish levels so as to match their previous compensation. Continue to do so until you've slapped yourself silly to the point that you're not complaining about how other folks must just be connected or political or adept at the finer art of buttock tongue massage. These two lines really serve to summarize the incoherent blithering that was jcr's post.Whoa, really? Think Locally: remember three years back when we talked about the book Corporate Confidential? A Principal-level employee at Microsoft is someone who drives strategic efforts in their area of expertise. After that, I was given a team that was in trouble quality wise 6 months before shipping. then do you know what more you need to do? You should NOT be looking to get more money to stay in a job you don't like. I dont know why this is the case. What if you and your manager are at the same level L62. Great post Mini. It's a question your boss gets asked so it's not a surprise to them. I know to a certain degree that's all of us - but, if you're dealing with 2-3 a year or every other year then you need to get out. I asked them direct questions about what I needed to do to get the next promotion. Join the Levels.fyi community to chat with employees at Microsoft and other tech companies. Don't obsess over what is in front of you. agree with positive suggestions here. Rather nice site you've got here. Senior Director, Head of Data Sciences VMware Aug 2014 - Jul 20217 years Bengaluru Area, India Global Leader and Head of Data Sciences Lead Data scientist teams across Bangalore, Bulgaria, Palo. But power plays are at work and I get smacked when I try and take on extra work.So my question to the more experienced is this - how does one get the attention of management when they are focused on their own problems, their favorite underlings (of which I am not one), and when there is not enough work to go around? you want to complete A and A requires 10 devs. What worked well and what really horked things up for you? These posts are provided "as-is" with no warranties and confer no rights. I have also always looked for those problems (opportunities). It's because you were playing catch-up to Apple, and playing Machiavellian games with the media companies instead of working on the issues that your customers were complaining about.Vista is still unreliable, unsecurable, and a massive pain in the ass to use on a daily basis. I suggest understanding why it is "No" first, truthfully accepting the point-of-view as pissed off as it may make you, and then having a self-directed action-plan to get on track. Next, make sure your manager values your contributions and surpass their expectations, making yourself invaluable and not immediately replaceable. I hope Mini returns from his vacation soon :(The Windows division has a large number of people that were promoted to "Senior" PM/Test/Dev in the past year. So I cultivate relationships with my manager's peers; their support helps tremendously. You want to be more efficient, smarter than him. Say B.In a perfect case, B will have 10 devs to transfer to A but when that happen B will be left with 5 testers and 2 PMs. Thus promotions are easy to L62 - if you don't make 62 quickly, there is something wrong. This past year I had what I thought was an outstanding year, was given a 20%, but not promoted to L63. It's a good time to flip back through that. I joined The Company 2 weeks ago, far from 63, but all you said it's very valuable for defining a career path. This makes it very easy to feel underleveled, because the 6 people that started 3 weeks before you might take up the 2 promotion spots available per year for 3 years (numbers all made up).You also, at least in my experience, aren't really given feedback on when you're performing at a level that *could* be promoted. Skilled in Surfer 8, MS Project, Primavera, Microsoft Excel, Analytical Skills, Customer Service, Customer Success Management, Vendor Management and Sales. As someone who left MS @ L63 - and supposedly tracking strongly to L64 - and who has seen a lot of questionable promos occur, I think it's fair to say that the rise to "Senior" follows a slighly skewed distribution curve in that in the largest bucket case, you can probably see that L63 was warranted.However, on either end of the distribution, by which I mean people who easily obtained it and people who seriously struggled to obtain it, there are some disturbing anomalies that are difficult to explain away.You might say, "I can live with the corner cases" and I would agree that optimizing for those isn't worthwhile.BUT! Highly effective Finance leadership; ability to deliver results by leading through example while setting high personal standards; Partnering with the business and influencing . Technical excellence alone will not generate success.Authority. I believe that the most fundamental difference between level 62 and 63 is in the realm of EQ (emotional quotient, see the book Working With Emotional Intelligence" by Goleman). There are 12 Directors in my sub and over 1000 people all scoping to one day be a Lvl 63reality, most people will leave before they get that far. They are the exception that you shouldn't wind yourself up about.And I don't want to focus on them anymore in this comment stream because it's not helpful. In MCS, soft skills are often more important than hard skills since you work with customers (often angry ones), sales (often under pressure and looking for someone to blame). Mini, all those aspects you list are also present at L62, L65, etc. You will make your management look good and the levels will come. It's a very rare thing that you'll find a manager who gives you the kind of actionable feedback you need to succeed without doing a whole lot of sleuthing and groundwork of your own to fill in the blanks. And I'm going to tell you right now, I'm 99.9% sure what needs to change is you. I actually find the content of this post to be superficial, fairly naive and not reflective of my experience having moved through the ranks from 59 to >65.Well please don't just tease us and leave it there. but I have to disagree with this statement.While it is true that it is difficult for managers to say what *exactly* an employee should do to get to the next level, it *should not* be impossible to list what experiences/qualities/results will qualify him to be a *strong* candidate for promotion to the next level.And this should not be that difficult - it is just a matter of syncing up with the peer leads, and dev manager, and discussing what their perception of an L63 is vs l62. If I was looking at reducing costs this isn't exactly where I'd set my sights first but again this is Microsoft we're talking about. I think there's only one thing I would add, from the perspective of having been promoted from L59 to L64 in a 6-year period in one org (I left MS in 2006).Sometimes things within an org will turn to complete crap, and either there's not an option to leave or you may not want to. I could make changes quickly and with quality. The scope imcreases, the risk increases and the visbility increases. and Sign up on LinkedIn and join the Microsoft Employees or ex-MSFT employees groups and then you'll see them posted. Expertise in the following areas: Product Marketing Consistently created groundbreaking, customer-focused value . You will not know the difference.Steve Steve Steve given the state of the company, are you sure you don't have anything else more urgent to do? This can play a bigger role even than how many times you broke the build, caused a bug, etc. Think about why they're able to do that.-jcr. : those titles are organization specific. I have to agree with a few that have posted already. 3. I'm sure others here will clarify.And apparently we will all know more in January. I am not worried. This will bump you off the fast-track 96% of the time.No matter how bad things are, always be positive, and provide a recommendation for how to address each problem. And do you anticipate what happened when I made the next move to Dev Manager position? Many folks lurk longer in the 60-62 range because they are not challenged enough to move to the next level. At a intl sub level a 63 is two ic to the GM. You almost always have to earn it. As a L64 I find getting to 65 quite a wall. According to Glassdoor, senior software engineers at Google can earn $172,818 as their average base pay, along with average cash bonuses of $30,921, stock bonuses of $104,769, and some other cash incentives for a total of $201,000. Good managers: In general, good managers realize that they need to sell their team's accomplishments. Weirder sh*t has happened before. But if you start when you think you are ready and work with your manager toward the goal, you'll get there. For others, the picture will not be so clear and they may place more weight on perceptions or a set of isolated incidents. SoI'll repeat it again. I am not saying the manager is trying to sabotage, but when push comes to shove will you get the impactful project. It turns out that typically your immediate manager has little control, it's all decided at higher levels. One of the interesting things about the level structure that I find interesting is that you are always expected to perform higher than your level. L63 takes a bit longer but is also fast. It's what you can offer, not what you want out of it that most teams are looking for. I drove my 59-62 agenda with an iron fist and it didn't matter so much that I didn't play well with others or work to help other teams who were struggling.I became a manager during that time and had a year of major hiccups while trying to break through to 63 -- all of a sudden the fact that I was a unilateral force was working *against* me and not for me. >Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. Learning Curves and Disillusioned Learners: psychologists have known for years that skill acquisition tends to follow a typical learning curve. * It is true that working for the promotion should not be your only driver, but it is important for it to be "a" driver -- of course you should enjoy what you are doing while working to achieve that next level, but remember that you are not there to become a bench-warmer. Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer. I just want to grow, and I am aware that it does not translate to a promotion always. Microsoft Compensation Software Engineer $ 80K $ 225K Average Compensation: $101,338 Senior Cloud Software Engineer $ 90K $ 175K Average Compensation: $128,000 Principal Software Engineer $ 90K. What I think may be worthwhile is understanding the circumstances of those anomalies and figuring out why they occur and how to "incent" management to ensure that they don't occur. Know where you are in the stack and understand how you will rank higher next year.BTW, forgot to mention I was a manager for the second half of my career. The technical and management ladder in Microsoft is highly competitive and is highly regarded in the Industry. Only one can emerge, and not everyone can be a senior simultaneously. Repeat. The "Most Likely Range" represents values that exist within the 25th and 75th percentile of all pay data available for this role. They came from "hot" product teams. When someone gives you the hard advice to succeed, it's quite the gift. Thanks for starting this. The true professional with loads of potential is left to Sulk. If you read CSPs this is the underlying message more or less. Your best bet is to help your boss get a promotion. You can be a genius of blinding brilliance, but if you come from a boring product team, you "don't have much potential".
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